Curse

zeratulz · Sep 24, 2011, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Hi,

Being absolutely bored with my Necro I'm looking to make a Mesmer and I'm trying to decide between two builds.

OQBSA4BT/A5ZmO2iAAAAPA8UA (Standard Keystone Build)

vs.

OQZSAYBTID0A3UTP2gmOAAAAA ( Standard E-surge/Panic Build)

Now my team will consist of the following:

3 Mes not including myself running standard 2 E-Surge, 1 Inept builds
3 Necs: 2 Nec/Rit Heals w/ Discord OAhjUwGYoSxMKgfBVVDTTOSTjTA & 1
1 Nec/Monk Prot OANUQmiay3SxMfBKg1DaRBEVV2BA (FYI I'm open to changing their elite in all honesty so please provide feedback here too)
1 Rit running either SoGM OACiAyk84sPbfzNX0GAAAcmA or the standard SoS Rit Healer OACiIykzcNLnYMvJzEAAAAAA (I feel I have enough heals with the 3 necro rit healers so I'm leaning towards SoGM for dps).

On one more questions regarding the builds for my Mes Heroes. I found a Mesmer setup from the Glint AFK farming thread and was wondering if those builds would work for all forms of pve play and not just Glints. I used those builds successfully on my Necro to farm Glint and it worked flawlessly.

Ok now that that's out of the way I'm looking to build my Mes as straight dps. I'll leave the interupts, etc. to my heroes. Would they Keystone build be better at straight dps or would the E-Surge build be better at dps? Hell if there's any other suggested builds that are better at dps then please share them. I really appreciate all the feedback that will hopefully be provided. I've searched the pvx wiki and read the forums here and I'm still undecided.

Here are the aforementioned Glint AFK Mesmer templates:

1:OQBCAswDP9HY64a55dwNd6B
2:OQlCAswDP9HY6yzcNZwNVeD
3:OQBCAcwEP1PQempDXzI0KACI

ultimak719 · Sep 25, 2011, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Granted, I'm not an expert on mesmer builds. But, after some quick calculation, the Keystone Build probably has the best dps of the two you suggested, while the Panic/Esurge has more utility.

That aside, you should have no trouble using the AFK build in regular pve, but it might not be optimal. Also, i wouldn't bother taking two esurges; one panic, one ineptitude, and one esurge is perfectly fine.

Next, two necro healers is generally overkill. With the incredible shutdown of 4 mesmers, plus with spirit walls and minions, you don't need it. If you are worried, take a second spirit spammer and run this: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Rt/any_Defensive_Spirits

Finally, this build http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Me/A_Assa...Promise_Spiker has very good single target dps, but ti might not be the gameplay style you are looking for.

Bristlebane · Sep 25, 2011, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Wouldn't it be fun with a gimmicky Keystone team? You + a few mesmers running keystone builds, and rest will provide conditions and heals/prots.

The idea here is to have 2-3 keystone mesmers abuse some Deadly Arts signets: Signet of Deadly Corruption/Shadows/Toxic Shock.

For this to work you need other heroes in your team spread 4 conditions, mainly Blindness, Poison, and 2 optional. Blinding Flash + Virulence + Epidemic perhaps? or Fevered Dreams?

LifeInfusion · Sep 26, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Keystone
Keystone wins every time to any straight damage build due to AoE from Signet of Clumsiness x2 per Keystone cycle + Unnatural signet damage (if Symbolic Celerity is up along with Mantra of Inscriptions so you get 2 cycles of Signet of Clumsiness).

I'd keep Mantra of Inscriptions on any Keystone signet build though. A cycle time of 10seconds per Keystone signet recharge is much lower than 15 seconds and pushes the sig of clumsiness/unnatural signet recharge down so that you can use them twice in one keystone charge.

Keystone-->sig of clumsiness --> unnatural signet --> Bane Signet/Signet of Disruption --> Castigation Signet/Leech Signet --> sig of clumsiness --> unnatural signet

...all in 10 seconds. No need to worry about energy either.

[email protected] fast cast*6=342 just from Keystone

Sig of [email protected]=57 again x2 , unnatural [email protected]=47 (71 on target) x2

550/10 seconds =~55DPS from those three skills alone

I only count AoE but if you were to swap Signet of Corruption in where Bane Signet/Signet of Disruption or Castigation Signet/Leech Signet are you'd get more AoE (albeit about 2-3DPS).

6*0.75 aftercast=4.5 seconds, so 6 signets in 5.5 seconds after the fast casting reduction is very doable (since signet of clumsiness is 0.25 base cast, unnatural signet is 1 second base cast, leech signet/signet of disruption are 0.25 base cast, castigation signet/bane signet are 1 second base cast).

Mantra of Inscriptions is a stance, so the 1 cast time, 0.75 aftercast Symbolic Celerity every 60 or so seconds is really not a big deal.

Panic
If you compare the Panic build there's no way to obtain that damage. Unnatural signet doesn't get affected by Fast casting. Cry of Pain will be at best 50 damage on 8 recharge, Mistrust ~140 on 6 recharge, Wastrel's Demise is ~150 on 2 recharge but is conditional (technically 5 recharge due to hexing). The only thing is that Mistrust has nearby range ; Cry of Pain has in the area range. And the Panic build can't sustain the energy for Wastrel's spam as well.

Assuming 15Dom and 13 Fast cast (really idiotic considering you need energy to use the 10 energy skills on recharge)...
Mistrust = 135 every 0.61*12=7.32 seconds --> ~18.5DPS
Cry of Pain = 50 every 0.61*15=9.15 seconds --> ~5.5DPS
Unnatural signet=50 every 10 =5DPS (75 every 10 on the target --> 7.5DPS)
Wastrel's Demise=150 every 5=30DPS
Total=61.5DPS, with 30DPS highly conditional due to being from Wastrel's Worry

On a 10 second cycle you will get 1 cast of Mistrust (1.1 cast+0.75 aftercast), 1 Cry of pain (0.14 cast+0.75 aftercast), 1 unnatural signet (0.61+0.75aftercast), 2 casts of Wastrel's (at best).

Caveat
This doesn't include the cast+aftercast on the Panic bar and energy management needed to sustain Wastrel's every 5seconds or the 10 energy skills on recharge. In reality, if Glyph of Lesser Energy handled every cast of Panic, you still could only cast a 10 energy spell once every 7.5 seconds at best (meaning you could only cast Mistrust or Cry of Pain but not Wastrel's Demise). If all you did was spam Wastrel's you could only sustain it once every 4 seconds due to 4 pips of energy and no energy management other than Glyph of Lesser Energy.

Thus, the Keystone Signet build wins out if used by a player that gets 6 casts under Keystone to get the 342 damage. The Panic build will push out 135+50+50=235 before Wastrel's and assuming 2 copies of Wastrel's activates for all 5 seconds (it won't due to energy and monster skill spam), you get +300 more =535 , which is less than 550 (keystone with 2 casts of signet of clumsiness and unnatural signet).

0.25 base cast time and 8 base recharge of Signet of clumsiness is the main reason for Keystone Signet superiority along with the fact that mobs tend to be attacking almost all the time.

Cuilan · Sep 26, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Don't bother with Keystone builds if you're the single lone player in the party unless you know how to manage aggro on your own.

zeratulz · Sep 26, 2011, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Thanks to you all!

I Hate Chips · Sep 26, 2011, 05:57 PM // 17:57

I know this might be a little off-topic, but it is a bit of a waste to have 2 esurge heroes in your team. They will ''walk in eachothers way''. Your better of with just 1 inept 1 esurge mesmer hero. Plus you also might be Esurger, than it would be even worse.

zeratulz · Sep 26, 2011, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Hate Chips

I know this might be a little off-topic, but it is a bit of a waste to have 2 esurge heroes in your team. They will ''walk in eachothers way''. Your better of with just 1 inept 1 esurge mesmer hero. Plus you also might be Esurger, than it would be even worse.

Not off topic at all bro and thanks for the suggestion. Just a lil back story I wouldn't be running E-surge, I'd be running a keystone build linked in the OT. Now with that said if I'm running a keystone setup the real question was should I run my heroes with? Esurge/Inep or should I have run keystone builds on them as well?

Cuilan · Sep 27, 2011, 02:47 AM // 02:47

You care very confident in your abilities if you're considering a pair of Keystones when you don't know what to run.

Plutoman · Sep 27, 2011, 03:27 AM // 03:27

2x e-surge is fine. Enemies have enough energy (and particularly e-regen) for 2 e-surges, oftentimes 3 e-surges, though not all.

Keystone is the best damage, but smaller range.

For heroes, keystone is frustrating because heroes don't maintain Symbolic Celerity. Thus, if you want effectiveness, you'll need to micro it. If you don't want to micro it, run 2x e-surge + ineptitude, or panic / e-surge / ineptitude. Shared Burden/PI is nice, too, but not as much synergy.

Premium Unleaded · Sep 27, 2011, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Shared Burden goes well if you choose signet mes heroes, since they don't have access to the vanguard sig.

Darknes Lives Again · Sep 27, 2011, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Panic/Esurge all the way, the damage isn't dependant on any hex/enchant, tight balls or whatever. Another option is running an Echo mesmer with Mistrust/Wandering Eye, a good option and can be used everywhere, I run it also. My hero setup is 2 e-surge and 1 panic mes, can't be bothered with illusion magic.

Cuilan · Sep 27, 2011, 05:14 PM // 17:14

OP only wants nuker skills, I wouldn't bother suggesting those other elites.

Darknes Lives Again · Sep 28, 2011, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Like Echo Wandering Eye/Mistrust isn't a nuker build ...

I Hate Chips · Sep 28, 2011, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutoman

2x e-surge is fine. Enemies have enough energy (and particularly e-regen) for 2 e-surges, oftentimes 3 e-surges, though not all.

Keystone is the best damage, but smaller range.

For heroes, keystone is frustrating because heroes don't maintain Symbolic Celerity. Thus, if you want effectiveness, you'll need to micro it. If you don't want to micro it, run 2x e-surge + ineptitude, or panic / e-surge / ineptitude. Shared Burden/PI is nice, too, but not as much synergy.

It isn't about the energy for using 2 Esurge heroes, its triggering mistrust/pdrain/other rupts. They will ''annoy'' eachother, I tested it many times, it's a bit of a slot waste.

Don't run keystone on a hero, because hero dont know with AoE damage is, they will use it often on 1 single enemy which is a waste.

And as Human Player, I've never been a fan of keystone. Some people told me Esurge is not that good damagewise, but the way I use it, it seems like one of the most powerfull pve builds around.